Was anyone else disappointed with the 328s acceleration?

Went to test drive the E92 328s. I LOVED the handling, nice aluminum trip interior. The 6 speed gearbox isn't that bad, but the acceleration with automatic was just depressing. Huge throttle to wheel lag. And the sound system needs improvement. What do you all think?

I'd like to know too

I drove a 335 with an auto and was a bit disappointed with the lag. I couldn't tell if it was turbo lag or the transmission, but I was leaning towards lag in the transmission.

The stats show 0-60 in 6.2 for MT and 6.7 for AT.

I test drove a AT 328i and felt the acceleration was fine for everyday driving. Definitely far from neck snapping though. And I still like my 330Ci WAAAAYYYY better.

I'm not saying it wasn't neck snapping fast once it got going, it was definitely a fast car. I was just refering to what I felt was a delay ar lagfrom the time you stepped on the accelerator to when it really took off hard. I really think it had to do with being an automatic more than a lag with the engine. Also, I couldn't figure out how to turn off the traction control, which will definitely give a feeling of lag if you start to break traction.

IIRC, the auto in the 328 e92 is the same that is found in the pre-existing e90.
I had a loaner e90 a few months ago. The slushbox in my Jetta GLI (DSG) blew that auto away in terms of responsiveness. I also noticed that from stop to 1st and then to 2nd was very jerky. Overall, I was disappointed with the e90.

Well.. DSG is not exactly a slushbox

Originally Posted by photoz

IIRC, the auto in the 328 e92 is the same that is found in the pre-existing e90.
I had a loaner e90 a few months ago. The slushbox in my Jetta GLI (DSG) blew that auto away in terms of responsiveness. I also noticed that from stop to 1st and then to 2nd was very jerky. Overall, I was disappointed with the e90.

Honestly, do you guys even drive BMW's...?

All BMW's are throttle by wire. The program over a coarse of a few weeks will adapt to your driving style, so that when you punch the throttle, you have instant acceleration. Borrowing one or having a loaner won't display the "feel" you want because it hasnt adapted to your demands...!!



-Shortshift

my 02 330Cic is my daily driver, so I most certainly do drive a BMW. btw, the drive by wire throttle still does not help the annoying fact that the CDV (clutch delay valve, manual e46s) will still make you shift like a tard when driving spiritedly.

the ECU not being adapted to my driving style was certainly not the reason why the slushbox in the e90 is a dog when compared to my Jetta's DSG. the auto in the e90 is just plain not up to current standards, I'm not the first person to mention this, its old news. I've driven more than 1 e90 now, the auto just plain sucks.

Yes, there is lag with the drive by wire & Valvetronic system and the CDV sucks. I took it as a challenge and have a blast driving it. Just got to lead the throttle a little knowing there will be lag and that much finer with the RPM matching to prevent the CDV from rearing its ugly head.

Originally Posted by n1smo

Yes, there is lag with the drive by wire & Valvetronic system and the CDV sucks. I took it as a challenge and have a blast driving it. Just got to lead the throttle a little knowing there will be lag and that much finer with the RPM matching to prevent the CDV from rearing its ugly head.

First, it's not "drive by wire", but throttle by wire..!

Secondly, you didn't mention the e90 you drive was an Auto. Why would you be looking for "performance" from an automatic..?

There is no "lag" if you teach your car how to react. That was one of the things I hated most about bringing my car in for a software update because it erased my throttle response.

It takes about 1 week of quick launching and full throttle starts for the ECU (computer) to recognize that your not worried about gas mileage or smooth starts and just ramps up the throttle response...!







-Shortshift

Originally Posted by Shortshift

First, it's not "drive by wire", but throttle by wire..!

WTF r u talking about? What is the difference between your "throttle by wire" and drive by wire? The n54's throttle body/ butterfly is there only for emissions, once the engine is warmed up, it stays full open. The n54 uses valvetronic to control engine speed by controlling valve lift. The delay comes because Valvetronic takes time to adjust for the driver's input which is not as fast as a good old fashion linkage controlled throttle body. The G37's engine uses the same technology but calms to be I forgot (how many percent) faster than Valvetronic and uses (however many percent) less parts. The lag is often wrongly associated with turbo lag. Drive the 330i and you will feel the same lag as it uses Valvetronic also.

Originally Posted by Shortshift

Secondly, you didn't mention the e90 you drive was an Auto. Why would you be looking for "performance" from an automatic..?

Again, WTF r u talking about? I drive an e92 and it is not an Auto so try to figure out which transmission I have, here's another clue, I mentioned CDV in my previous post. Final clue: I think my sig says it all.

Originally Posted by Shortshift

There is no "lag" if you teach your car how to react. That was one of the things I hated most about bringing my car in for a software update because it erased my throttle response.

It takes about 1 week of quick launching and full throttle starts for the ECU (computer) to recognize that your not worried about gas mileage or smooth starts and just ramps up the throttle response...!

I can say with ease that I drive my car harder than you. Here's another clue for ya: I have the Autobahn and the Nuerburgring (google it if you don't know what it is).

Originally Posted by n1smo

WTF r u talking about? What is the difference between your "throttle by wire" and drive by wire? The n54's throttle body/ butterfly is there only for emissions, once the engine is warmed up, it stays full open. The n54 uses valvetronic to control engine speed by controlling valve lift. The delay comes because Valvetronic takes time to adjust for the driver's input which is not as fast as a good old fashion linkage controlled throttle body. The G37's engine uses the same technology but calms to be I forgot (how many percent) faster than Valvetronic and uses (however many percent) less parts. The lag is often wrongly associated with turbo lag. Drive the 330i and you will feel the same lag as it uses Valvetronic also.



Again, WTF r u talking about? I drive an e92 and it is not an Auto so try to figure out which transmission I have, here's another clue, I mentioned CDV in my previous post. Final clue: I think my sig says it all.


I can say with ease that I drive my car harder than you. Here's another clue for ya: I have the Autobahn and the Nuerburgring (google it if you don't know what it is).

Drive by wire is when your steering wheel is not directly connected to the turning apperatus and is control electronically. The Stealth Bomber uses this technology, but it is unecessary in autos. But our throttles are..!

Secondly, your not the thread starter (OP) in which he mentions the poor performance from an "automatic" ... thatwas in the second paragraph and not pertaining to you.

Thirdly, I am highly aware of the Nurburgring. I was first introduced to it back in the early 80's. I don't follow Nascar or Drag racing, strickly Formula1 and love open road switchbacks. I'd love to challenge you to a road flogging and put your skillz up against mine. But that would be near impossible, so lets agree the pedigree of BMW suites both of our styles.

Just lay off the bravado, were are talking about "sluggish" performance when there shouldn't be... and obviously not to many people are skilled enough to have issues with a CDV, but you can simply drill it out if you seem to not know when the clutch is off the friction plates and you press your clutch in tooo far then try to engage froma greater distance. (that arguement is too deep for this discussion though)

So... Often people complain about what they don't know and thats why I was clarifying it for them.







-Garrett

Originally Posted by Shortshift

Drive by wire is when your steering wheel is not directly connected to the turning apperatus and is control electronically. The Stealth Bomber uses this technology, but it is unecessary in autos. But our throttles are..!

Are we not talking about the same thing here? Since you want to get stupid about it, guess what? The n54 does not use "throttle by wire", it uses Valvetronic. Valvetronic replaces what the Throttle's primary function which is a "valve that directly regulates the amount of air entering the engine" by altering valve lift. In the case of the n54, the throttle is strictly for emission and will open fully once the engine is warmed up. So "throttle by wire" means nothing in relation to the function of the n54. Maybe if I say it 2x it will sink in. LOL

Originally Posted by Shortshift

Secondly, your not the thread starter (OP) in which he mentions the poor performance from an "automatic" ... thatwas in the second paragraph and not pertaining to you.

Then don't quote me.

Originally Posted by Shortshift

Thirdly, I am highly aware of the Nurburgring. I was first introduced to it back in the early 80's. I don't follow Nascar or Drag racing, strickly Formula1 and love open road switchbacks. I'd love to challenge you to a road flogging and put your skillz up against mine. But that would be near impossible, so lets agree the pedigree of BMW suites both of our styles.

Maybe you will drive it enough time someday and get to my "skillz" level. How am I suppose to take someone seriously when they say "skillz"? Throwing out the date you heard about the Ring like it brings credibility to your driving abilities... hahahhahaa Good one! What's next? You're going to try to impress me by posting the best lap time you got with your PlayStation2?

Originally Posted by Shortshift

Just lay off the bravado, were are talking about "sluggish" performance when there shouldn't be... and obviously not to many people are skilled enough to have issues with a CDV, but you can simply drill it out if you seem to not know when the clutch is off the friction plates and you press your clutch in tooo far then try to engage froma greater distance. (that arguement is too deep for this discussion though)

Did you read my post? I said I don't need to remove the CDV valve because I rather learn to live with it and use it as a challenge. For someone who knows nothing about Valvetronics and resort to a terminology battle, one would wonder how deep you can go into any discussions about the clutch and transmission.

Originally Posted by Shortshift

So... Often people complain about what they don't know and thats why I was clarifying it for them.







-Garrett

And you clarify the issues how?

Now, now girls, can't we all be friends? For the record, my 330i feels sluggish from a standing start compared with my 11 year old e36 328is that has 120k on the clock. All to do with slow throttle response I suppose.

Originally Posted by n1smo

Are we not talking about the same thing here? Since you want to get stupid about it, guess what? The n54 does not use "throttle by wire", it uses Valvetronic. Valvetronic replaces what the Throttle's primary function which is a "valve that directly regulates the amount of air entering the engine" by altering valve lift. In the case of the n54, the throttle is strictly for emission and will open fully once the engine is warmed up. So "throttle by wire" means nothing in relation to the function of the n54. Maybe if I say it 2x it will sink in. LOL

Then don't quote me.

Maybe you will drive it enough time someday and get to my "skillz" level. How am I suppose to take someone seriously when they say "skillz"? Throwing out the date you heard about the Ring like it brings credibility to your driving abilities... hahahhahaa Good one! What's next? You're going to try to impress me by posting the best lap time you got with your PlayStation2?


Did you read my post? I said I don't need to remove the CDV valve because I rather learn to live with it and use it as a challenge. For someone who knows nothing about Valvetronics and resort to a terminology battle, one would wonder how deep you can go into any discussions about the clutch and transmission.


And you clarify the issues how?

Dude, BMW don't use a mechanical means for a throttle. When you push on your gas pedal... it is not connected to the engine mechanically.

It has a little sensor and it knows how far you've pushed it in and how fast. A computer controls the fuel delivery based on how hard or slow you've stomped on the gas pedal.

The way the engine gets it's information is VIA a communication wire. Thus, the term "by wire" and not by linkage. Understood..? Go look under your steering wheel at your gas pedal, there is nothing there behind it. Just the little sensor. Hell it could be wireless and transmit the data to the computer but instead (for safety) engineers chose to us a "wire".

Valvetronic is a technology BMW uses to control air for greater efficiency and power. An engine doesnt need Valvtronic to have a throttle by wire. (or vise/versa..!) They are independant technologies that I think you have somewhat confused.

The RESPONSE of the throttle in BMW's are controled by a mini computer because the signal from your foot is altered BEFORE it even get to the engine's DME. This "throttle by wire" computer adjust your feedback from the gas pedal to the engine depending on what it has learned from your driving style.

All of this is before the engine knows whats going on. After that, Valvetronic can work it's wonders.


Honestly, I don't think you have a grasp what Valvetronic is. It is simply a more sophisticated means of air delivery to the engine, not fuel...! It's complex and simple at the same time because you no longer have belts and other mechanical means controlling the throttle body, but a stand alone computer that reads several sensors such as air temp, engine temp, fuel entering the combustion chamber and it alters the amount of air to adjust for a perfect burn given those peramiters.


Here look:

Traditional:



Valvetronic:


Valtronic has nothing to do with throttle by wire or even drive by wire, they are two totally seperate technologies.


I used the world "skillz" to belittle you. Hinting at your inability to understand what I am discussing here. Perhaps you cannot differentiate between what a throttle and a steering wheel is, I dunno? But I already explained the concept of "drive by wire" and if your unwilling to accept that knowledge then it's pointless to continue educating you.

This isn't a braggin fight. People are having sluggish or poor performance with their cars and I am trying to help them understand part of the problem might be from them failing to teach their car to respond quicker to their needs, via the gas pedal.

Unlike your errant debate, which cannot be controlled by the driver because Valvetronic is controlled by a stand-alone computer with predefined values. Thats why tuners like messing with those variables to get the most out of our engine.


Again, this ins't a pissing match, I've been around the car (BMW) community for a long time and have several respected posts quoted often on other messege boards & communities and can shed alot of light on many things. But don't wrongly suggest I know nothing of Valvtronic when I indeed know quite a bit about the technology. I am an advid Formula1 fan and watch closly as BMW developed that tech.






-Shortshift

Originally Posted by Shortshift

Dude, BMW don't use a mechanical means for a throttle. When you push on your gas pedal... it is not connected to the engine mechanically.

It has a little sensor and it knows how far you've pushed it in and how fast. A computer controls the fuel delivery based on how hard or slow you've stomped on the gas pedal.

The way the engine gets it's information is VIA a communication wire. Thus, the term "by wire" and not by linkage. Understood..? Go look under your steering wheel at your gas pedal, there is nothing there behind it. Just the little sensor. Hell it could be wireless and transmit the data to the computer but instead (for safety) engineers chose to us a "wire".

Wow, you are thick head, what do you do for a living, I'm curious. No **** Sherlock, Drive by wire = Throttle by wire. You are unable to comprehend the next level of knowledge which is that not only does the car doesn't use mechanical linkage to control engine speed, it does not use the throttle body. It alters the valve lifts themselves to do what the throttle plate used to do. 3rd time's the charm? LOL

Originally Posted by Shortshift

Valvetronic is a technology BMW uses to control air for greater efficiency and power. An engine doesnt need Valvtronic to have a throttle by wire. (or vise/versa..!) They are independant technologies that I think you have somewhat confused.

The n54 uses Valvetronic to control how much air goes into the compression chamber, it does not use the throttle. Get it? The throttle is used only if Valvetronic fails and the car goes into "limp mode", it will revert to controlling the throttle plate in the throttle body.

Originally Posted by Shortshift

The RESPONSE of the throttle in BMW's are controled by a mini computer because the signal from your foot is altered BEFORE it even get to the engine's DME. This "throttle by wire" computer adjust your feedback from the gas pedal to the engine depending on what it has learned from your driving style.

All of this is before the engine knows whats going on. After that, Valvetronic can work it's wonders.

That is common knowledge, once again, I went to the next level which is not only is there a computer delay there is also a delay with Valvetronic itself. That is why Infiniti calms their version of valvetronic is superior because it uses less parts and is faster. Is it sinking in yet?

Originally Posted by Shortshift

Honestly, I don't think you have a grasp what Valvetronic is. It is simply a more sophisticated means of air delivery to the engine, not fuel...! It's complex and simple at the same time because you no longer have belts and other mechanical means controlling the throttle body, but a stand alone computer that reads several sensors such as air temp, engine temp, fuel entering the combustion chamber and it alters the amount of air to adjust for a perfect burn given those peramiters.

Who said anything about fuel delivery? You are all over the place with your incomprehensible thoughts. Is it possible to stay on one topic at a time with you? We are discussing your use of the word "throttle by wire" against my use of the word "drive by wire". You seem to think that drive by wire is too broad of a term and can be used in the steering wheel because you want to be a smart ass and associate the word "drive" with steering when everybody else on the planet associated the term "drive by wire" to the control of the engine through electronics since we are talking about the engine response here, not steering response. But guess what genius, your use of the word "throttle by wire" is wrong since this car doesn't use the throttle to control how much air is used in the compression chamber. Think about what I said for a minute before you blindly repond. It might safe you from looking even more retarded.

Originally Posted by Shortshift

Here look:

Traditional:



Valvetronic:


Valtronic has nothing to do with throttle by wire or even drive by wire, they are two totally seperate technologies.

Exactly right, Valvetronic has nothing to do with Throttle by wire! Good job! Valvetronic is the drive by wire system used by the n54 to control the amount of air that enters the compression chamber. *ding* *ding* *ding*

Originally Posted by Shortshift

I used the world "skillz" to belittle you. Hinting at your inability to understand what I am discussing here. Perhaps you cannot differentiate between what a throttle and a steering wheel is, I dunno? But I already explained the concept of "drive by wire" and if your unwilling to accept that knowledge then it's pointless to continue educating you.

hahahhahahaha Once again, why would anyone associate "drive by wire" with steering reponse when the discussion was about engine response?

Originally Posted by Shortshift

This isn't a braggin fight. People are having sluggish or poor performance with their cars and I am trying to help them understand part of the problem might be from them failing to teach their car to respond quicker to their needs, via the gas pedal.

Trust me, we all know this. There's another level of knowledge beyond your own, which is that there will be a delay with Valvetronic because to put it simply, there are more moving parts.

Originally Posted by Shortshift

Unlike your errant debate, which cannot be controlled by the driver because Valvetronic is controlled by a stand-alone computer with predefined values. Thats why tuners like messing with those variables to get the most out of our engine.

Tuners don't get the ability to mess with Valvetronics, BMW encrypted the software to prevent tampering by "tuners". All they can do at the moment is trick the ECU into thinking the car is running in a different condition in order to get the desired results.

Originally Posted by Shortshift

Again, this ins't a pissing match, I've been around the car (BMW) community for a long time and have several respected posts quoted often on other messege boards & communities and can shed alot of light on many things. But don't wrongly suggest I know nothing of Valvtronic when I indeed know quite a bit about the technology. I am an advid Formula1 fan and watch closly as BMW developed that tech.

You made this a pissing match with your first response. "Honestly, do you guys even drive BMW's...?" Do you honestly think you are more knowledgeable than the rest of the people in the forum with your self absorbing responses? Because I sure as hell ain't impressed with what you have contributed to this thread so far. Mister, "I was trying to belittle you".

P.S. You know nothing about valvetronics, cut and pasting a few diagrams without actually reading the article where you cut that **** out from does not make you knowledgeable on the matter. Read! And watching Formula1 races on television is supposed to add credibility to your posts?

Originally Posted by Shortshift

-Shortshift

Go back into whichever hole you crawled out of. Here, let me stoop to your level and belittle you also by using this awesome word I picked up from the internet: PWNED!!! HAHAHAHAHHAHAHA

Originally Posted by BimmerDom

Well.. DSG is not exactly a slushbox

Yes. I lot of people think that the 3 series auto is a sort of DSG. Its not. What it is is a very good auto box with sophisticated controls, As such it will never have the shift speed and response of a DSG or a manual. This may be the only area where VW/AUDI is superior to BMW.